Informal Gathering of Warriors 6/27/98
With Special thanks to Lord Kuromaku and Lord Hyoko
Diffuse light streams in through the ricepaper shoji screens which enclose this large room. Thick cotton-wrapped tatami mats cover the polished pine floor. Wooden weapon racks are set against the walls filled with assorted weapons, both rattan and metal. You also see a low pine table with a chaya of warm sake on it, an elegant freestanding bamboo cage and a sliding screen.
Also in the room: Lord Noonga who is seated, Lord Gigantuous who is seated, Lady Shadowkatt who is seated, GameMaster Lord Kuromaku who is seated, Lord Ruffelin who is seated, Lady Titaniia who is seated, Lord Thrudh who is seated
Obvious exits: out.
You see Lord Kuromaku Hikoemon the Giantman Warrior.
He appears to be in his 80's, has short, straight black hair, dark eyes, and black skin.
He is in good shape.
He is holding a chaya of warm sake in his right hand.
He is wearing a heavy backpack, a crystal amulet, a blackened mesh belt, a gold ring, a
dark hood, a dark silk satchel, some dark trousers, an ancient enruned urnon key, a
crafter's apron, a large sack, a jade-inlaid sheath, a dark shirt, and a ruby amulet.
Kuromaku says, "Small crowd this evening. Third meeting, I'll explain the rules for the newcomers. While I'm speaking, no one else is. While others are speaking, you aren't. If you wish to be recognized, please raise your hand. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss warriors. I am the Warrior Guru. If you'd like a copy of the previous 2 weeks' logs, please ask Hyoko, as he's been kind enough to clean them up. OK, goal for the day. Items for warriors. We'll get to that after the week in review. In the last week, I got nothing done. No, seriously, I scoped out DEFEND a bit more and discussed balancing some of the Guild Skills a bit better, as well as discussed metal lists with Yddriano and others for forging and other systems and worked on a few reference verbs for approval. Also started a warrior greeting verb, GREET."
Kuromaku bashes his forearm with Thrudh in a warm greeting.
Kuromaku says, "And there will probably be a few more."
Gigantuous grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that he isn't there anymore.
Kuromaku says, "If you have suggestions for that, please let me know. The other RP Verb I'm working on is TAUNT. I am SERIOUSLY thinking about making it critter only. Players get in enough trouble already. It will have NO in-game effect and be strictly RP. I'm thinking about making it a random taunt from a list of about 10. Again, if you have any suggestions for taunts, please let me know."
Kuromaku lowers his shield and sticks his chin out at Thrudh.
Kuromaku says, "C'mon, tough guy."
Thrudh chuckles. Thrudh idly picks at a massive sledge.
Kuromaku says, "Should be pretty amusing."
Kuromaku drops his weapon, looking shocked, then snatches it up again.
Titaniia asks, "Warrior only? Or anyone?"
Kuromaku says, "You tell me."
Titaniia says, "Warrior only and give us defend. Be amazing to be defending the group while taunting the creatures."
Kuromaku asks, "Do you think that some should be class specific? So that I make a list of 6 that are for all and a few class specific ones thrown in there?"
Thrudh says, "I like the idea of Greet being warrior only, and I'm sure that some of these could be warrior only, but for the most part I think they should be open."
Kuromaku says, "I agree."
Thrudh says, "I've never understood why only sorcerers could shift their eyes."
Kuromaku says, "Because only our bodies tense, and only rogues can twirl lockpicks, and...get it?"
Thrudh asks, "Is that right? Only warriors tense?"
Kuromaku says, "Only we can tense and look at someone, so that's why, but I rather like the idea of profession specific features in open verbs. OK. That's the weekly status. Any questions about that?"
Noonga asks, "Being new to the meeting and not really following for a while the boards, are any of these skill- or stat-based, when using on critters or just fluff really?"
Kuromaku says, "Fluff. The GREET and TAUNT verbs were suggested in the previous 2 meetings. OK, now to tonight's discussion. Ideas for items for warriors? For example, what should Yddriano REALLY be selling, so I can abuse him some more?"
Yddriano just arrived.
You see Lord Yddriano D'Adrioch the Half-Elf Warrior.
He appears to be in his 100's, has short, straight black hair, dark eyes, and pale skin.
He is in good shape.
He is holding an ancient enruned forging hammer in his right hand.
He is wearing a crystal amulet, an intricate iron mesh pouch, some heavy leather boots, some thick leather gloves, a scorched leather backpack, and some scorched blacksmith's leathers.
Yddriano says, "I heard that, snert."
Yddriano pokes Kuromaku in the ribs.
Kuromaku glances at Yddriano.
Kuromaku asks, "Yeah, so?"
Yddriano says, "Why I ought to..."
Yddriano mutters under his breath.
Yddriano removes an ancient enruned forging hammer from inside his leather backpack.
Yddriano shows you an ancient enruned forging hammer, which he is holding in his right hand. This obviously invaluable implement of creation looks like it could destroy as quickly as it could create, and is entirely covered in ancient dwarven runes. It seems to be forged out of a single solid piece of invar. Etched beautifully into the handle are the words, "For services rendered in defense of the Underdark, and bravery beyond that of mortal men, this forging hammer is proudly presented to Master Yddriano D'Adrioch. May his weapon always strike true. King Garl Gemhoarder of the Underdark." You also notice a small enchanter's mark.
Kuromaku asks, "How good is that as a weapon?"
A kobold hurries out.
Yddriano swings an ancient enruned forging hammer at a kobold!
AS: +509 vs DS: +10 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +29 = +559
... and hits for 229 points of damage!
Left hip pulped, severing the leg.
A kobold screams and falls to the ground grasping its mangled left leg!
The kobold cries out in pain one last time and dies.
Kuromaku says, "Nice."
Yddriano says, "Funny how one handed blunt claids always seem to do that."
Yddriano just went out.
Kuromaku says, "He's keeping an eye on us."
Titaniia says, "Just fluff?"
Kuromaku says, "Tiny, no. Anything you feel is appropriate."
Hyoko says, "Brass knuckles."
Kuromaku says, "Brass knuckles sound fun. I can probably do that."
Canardly appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Titaniia says, "Polishing cloths, whetstones and such like Girvahk sometimes sells. Maybe the way they have locksmith's kits, we could have weapon care kits of some kind."
Thrudh asks, "Maybe they can help in the basic maintenance part of repair, for less than 10% damage?"
Kuromaku says, "I really don't know how breakage/repair is going to work, but if it's feasible, it sounds like not a half-bad idea."
Hyoko asks, "Perhaps some scripted dumbbells to carry around and work out with while we're resting?"
Canardly says, "First, thanks fer invitin' me. Second, what are the goals of this assembly?"
Kuromaku says, "I meet with warriors every week at about this time to discuss warrior issues. I'm the warrior guru, and it's my job to make sure that the class is spoken for and to."
Canardly asks, "Any and all?"
Kuromaku says, "Any and all."
Ruffelin asks, "As for items, how about an armored boot for kicking and such? Wouldn't have to inflict any extra damage, just look mean. An, unrelated, how about some sort of trash receptacle for the Guild?"
Kuromaku asks, "Kicking as in Voln-Fu? OK, first, I think that Voln Fu is kind of tough to mess with in so far as we're dealing with Gods-given powers, much like a blessed weapon, except your foot is blessed. So unless you had a blessed boot, it probably wouldn't do much more. But it's an interesting idea. Voln-Fu adders. I think we discussed nunchukus at some point. Which sort of makes sense. As for a trash receptacle. It makes sense, yes, but because of game mechanics, it would be VERY difficult to put one where Klidel sits, for example. So putting one elsewhere seemed rather silly."
Thrudh says, "Some type of scripted gloves/gauntlets. Cinch 'em up, maybe get a better grip on your weapon, etc. RP, I'd imagine. Don't know what they'd really do, mechanically. We don't have Mjolnir, so it's not like they're mandatory."
Kuromaku says, "OK, I like the idea of gloves/gauntlets, but I'd need some functionality or something to do with 'em. Send me a few suggestions if you can come up with some."
Bleys appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Canardly says, "Well, I don't tink warriors really got a problem with attackin'. Unless yer like me and spent too much time in Helga's as a kid. Our problem has always been with fendin' off blows. The redux is nice, but ya still need tons o' spellage to be safe anywhere where ya can learn decent. I got no ideas that sound realistic to fix it..."
Kuromaku asks, "So is that our problem or critter design?"
Heindel appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Canardly says, "Well, if critters weren't tweaked to killin' magic-users, we'd be okay. So I guess it is critters."
Kuromaku says, "You've hit it, Canardly. I'm working on trying to get more balanced creatures put in, but I'm not a crittermaker by trade. I have asked the assembly to come up with ideas for creatures that might be suitable for warriors. The only one I got was an even bigger troll king."
Hyoko says, "I have not fleshed this out as far as implementation, but I think rangers should get hunting familiars, such as hawks, and warriors should get hunting dogs or such."
Kuromaku says, "Interesting idea. I think that'll come with the horses system, Hyoko. I'm calling it horses, but it's really trainable animals. It would be more complex than just one critter."
Titaniia says, "I don't know if we discussed this idea before, but what if after the Hochstib quest is over--that is if it ever is--the remains of the Mandis Crystal got dumped somewhere and created the same effects in a hunting area? Like Darkstone used to be."
Kuromaku says, "The idea of a magic-free hunting area has long been bounced around. I think it's a good one."
Bleys asks, "I dont know if this is possible, but would it be feasible for a warrior to be able to attune themselves to one blade to the point that they could get extra bonus to crits out of that one particular weapon with alot of work?"
Kuromaku says, "No. The game system isn't really set up for that sort of thing. I discussed it at length with Ophion. Amoke had a weapon which was scripted especially for him, as was Jesh's. That sort of labor is not something I would care to do for 1900 warriors."
Bleys says, "With some work it could be cut down to a variation of ET, but only for 1 weapon and only for that warrior."
Kuromaku says, "Yes, it could. But it gets us back to the base issue. Why do I need another +30 on my AS?"
Bleys says, "Not AS. Weighting. It would especially help out the OHE warriors."
Kuromaku says, "Yes, it would. Most of the discussion I had with Ophion was in regards to damage or AS. Let me table that and get back to you."
Hyoko says, "Does that have anything to do with something discussed early on for forging? That, say, I crafted a weapon with a plus factor, but someone else had to use it awhile to attune to it? Lord Mikos originally said this would be so."
Kuromaku says, "I don't know much about that, Hyoko. Most of the forging I've done is of normal weapons. I couldn't speak to attunement yet, but perhaps a master smith could weight a weapon for a particular person so that only they would receive the bonus. Doesn't sound too bad to me."
Heindel says, "Exactly what I was wondering, as it is the aprons currently keep track of our forging skill. Why not have the special weapons that did the same thing via attunement, etc, that had more damage or even crit weighing? Doesn’t seem like the coding would be that more difficult then what’s going on with the aprons."
Kuromaku says, "OK, I can't get into that too much. Suffice it to say that weapons aren't aprons, and that sort of stuff isn't suited to weapons. And the aprons may not keep track of that skill for much longer, when I get the chance."
Bleys says, "I would have to say I’m against this form of weighting being GIVEABLE to another person. It should be only for your own personal benefit."
Kuromaku asks, "Giveable? Much like a merchant weighter?"
Heindel says, "Hyoko's example is what he's talking about via attunment. I HATE merchant weighters and padders"
Kuromaku says, "The only thing I dislike is the resale."
Bleys says, "You wont be able to stop that unless it is personal attunement only, Kuromaku."
Kuromaku says, "I agree, sort of. I just suggested that a master smith could determine how padding and weighting would best suit a player, so it would only work for them. Being "fitted" as it were. I don't think you'd have a problem with that, no?"
Bleys says, "I’m against anything that would cause that amount of proliferation of padding."
Kuromaku says, "Duly noted. What if it was very difficult and very expensive, not unlike a 10X enchantment?"
Bleys says, "It would have to be several million. If it can’t be warrior exclusive, it has to be so expensive the moneybags bleed."
Heindel says, "Only sorcerers and wizards would afford it and master merchants. Ya leave out most squares."
Kuromaku says, "As it is now, Heindel, which is why warriors should be able to DO it."
Canardly grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that he isn't there anymore.
Gigantuous appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Titaniia says, "Or as a prize for a tournament or a gift given in a quest. For once a reward for good roleplay instead of merchanting."
Ruffelin says, "The "no" you got from Ophion. Was any of that discussion in relation to the Weapon Mastery suggestion I sent?"
Kuromaku says, "Yes, it was."
Ruffelin says, "Would have been something for Legend Warriors to look forward to."
Kuromaku says, "We'll get something for them."
Heindel says, "You were talkin about critters. Any ideas about making some critters just immune to or reflective of one sort element of magic?"
Kuromaku asks, "Yes. Like pyrothags? Elementals? Vruul?"
Ruffelin says, "A few ideas for items. 1) A headband that can be worn under a helm. 2) An engraving tool to put your name or mark on a weapon. 3) a trophy belt for skulls, claws, skins, etc and 4) From someone who's not in the lands now, more feminine armor for the lasses. I asked her to make suggestions. Not my line."
Noonga says, "I'd love to stay, but something came up that I need to leave the lands. One thing I would like to say, though, is I don't think there is much wrong with the way warriors are able to attack, counting the guild skills, training, etc. I think it’s pretty balanced, along with the defense, given the redux and such. What I would like to see, and I will think on this also, is what warriors are able to do in their spare time. Armor mending, making, what not. Like I said, I'll think of my ideas and present next week, but I have to split now."
Noonga grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that he isn't there anymore.
Bleys says, "Critter ideas. Critters that take only puncture wounds and are immune to most spells. Fire Giants<nuffsaid>. And bring back those blob things that ate magic."
Kuromaku says, "I've long asked for JUST those things. I can't quite figure out why tons of critters are puncture-proof, but NONE are slash-proof. None are crush-proof."
Bleys says, "Give them a gas attack like some armor-plated gasbag. Well, we have levitation coming out. Why not some flying crtters?"
Kuromaku says, "Bleys, I'd rather not get into flying or swimming critters right now."
Bleys says, "Deserts. CM-resistant heat attack. Actually, make that physical training. Icemule trail should be similar actually."
Kuromaku says, "All good suggestions."
Thrudh says, "For items, making Heraldric badges. I see alot of people here are into their family history and such. So let them make badges, something like the crests & shields."
Kuromaku says, "I believe Yddriano mentioned regimental badges before."
Thrudh asks, "Would they be tailored to the individual?"
Kuromaku says, "I don't believe so, but they would be unique."
Cemb appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Pyranth appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Thrudh says, "Well, after seeing the hundred or so types of crests available, it might be possible to have 2 or 3 items chosen to make up a family crest."
Shadowkatt grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that she isn't there anymore.
Kuromaku says, "It's not bad, but then we'd have 12,000 family crests or so."
Gigantuous says, "I would like to see CM and or physical training skills count more toward TD, but I see nothing wrong with defense in itself. On items as was discussed in past something like guilds or castes within Warrior Guild with their own crests or symbols but still staying within the Warrior Guild rules that have been set down."
Kuromaku says, "TD is something I'm not going to discuss. If I mention it, I get whaled on by about 30 GMs. Orders were mentioned before, Gigantuous. I designed them a while ago. Much like kits from AD&D, if you're familiar with the concept. As far as implementation goes, I'm still kind of struggling with it. How do I "overlay" a concept that affects systems in a base manner? Mechanically, it's a tough job, but if it were going to be done for Guilds, it should be done now, before we have 8. I'll continue to look at it as an option."
Bleys says, "In a way warriors came out bad getting the first guild."
Kuromaku says, "If you wish to look at it that way, Bleys. I prefer to look at it as we are the baseline, again."
Reife appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Gigantuous asks, "Is there anyway to look into the masters of skills where the results of skills last longer?"
Kuromaku says, "Again, an issue I'm working on."
Cemb says, "I know this was probably suggested before and rejected. I myself posted it as a suggestion when I gave a list of 20 or so skills I'd like to see in the guild on the old, old Genie boards, but it's one I find would be very useful these days. I'd like to see a skill or an ability where we are able to tell weighting, how hard weapons will hit, how well armor will stop weapons and such, in some form. Currently that's an ability bards lack that I think would be a great in character, a useful skill that we could give to the community."
Kuromaku says, "It's been suggested. The idea that someone who is well-skilled in forging should be able to determine such things. as a supplement to bard loresinging."
Cemb says, "And perhaps more than just the weighting thing but weapons specialties and such. Right now, it takes forever to find out how a found weapon is, how much it's worth, and well, it's almost totally impossible. It'd be a real help and make me feel more useful."
Kuromaku says, "That skill will never be for warriors. I will not, repeat, not, duplicate anything a bard can do."
Kuromaku asks, "Someone give me a weapon that's weighted, please?"
Thrudh offers Kuromaku a massive sledge.
Kuromaku accepts Thrudh's massive sledge.
Kuromaku sings:
"Sledge in my hand
Tell me your purpose
Or I'll rip out your glands."
Kuromaku says, "OK."
Kuromaku offers Thrudh a massive sledge.
Thrudh accepts Kuromaku's massive sledge.
Kuromaku says, "Having tested it, it will tell you if it's weighted but not the extent."
Cemb says, "I've taken 5 crit-weighted weapons to Krackenstar and he told me before he tried that bards couldn't tell levels, and he tried to sing to all of them, and he didn't get a thing."
Bleys says, "It gives descriptives on the weighting."
Kuromaku asks, "You've seen that? Type of weighting, yes. Not level."
Reife says, "I was jest gonna add on to what Cemb said. Even if we could not determine the amount, perhaps we could tell if it has been further forged? End some of the nonsense of ever last weapon sold has been on Breighton's weighting list. And mebbe as we get more advanced we could recognize the workmanship and determine who did it. Kinda like the legendary craftsman thing again."
Kuromaku says, "That would be difficult, if not outright impossible. Mechanically, I'd need to store that somewhere. And that would be loresinging."
Cemb says, "That's really the only way to quantify it at all, is to take a well known merchant that weighted a lot of stuff and has well known weighting levels and use his, otherwise it's completely subjective, it's a huge pain, that we could greatly help to eliminate, and an in character way as well."
Yarx appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Hyoko says, "This may take a bit of time to fully explain. Please bear with me. I do not see why, when I train for a level, I cannot return ranks to the pool and receive their base cost back in training points. For example, suppose that magic goes self-cast. Mana share will not be very important. I think I should be able to return my 8 ranks to the pool and receive their base cost per rank of 0 phys, 25 mental. I could then apply these points during my training. There would be no extra training above the ordinary. I could still only train 3 times in armor usage, for example. But I would have more points to expend, and be able to trade in mistakes of my youth."
Kuromaku says, "OK, on a base concept, it's fine. In reality, it'll never happen. Anything that has to do with the mangler will never be changed. The whole idea of it causes senior GMs and product managers to go get bats to hammer down the unruly parties. You'll recall the last time the mangler was mangled. All sorts of things happened. It won't be happening again. While the idea on the whole isn't bad, playwise. Both in character, and practically, it's pretty horrendous. I could, in theory, trade all my single training in edged to blunt in one year. I've spent 75 years training in edged, and now I'm gonna shift it over x years to blunt. Math. Call it over 25 years. This doesn't make sense, really. As far as gameplay, why wouldn't I store points in a skill for use later, i.e., I need to swing a weapon when I'm a baby wizard, and when I get to 20, start filtering it all to spells."
Pyranth says, "We are speaking of training points spent and rendered useless by a possible rule change. Not a matter of choice."
Kuromaku says, "True. In which case, you're talking about reallocation. It's harmless, because it ain't happening. Additionally, Hyoko, it simply adds too much to the minmaxers."
Reife asks, "Sorry. What’s a minmaxer?"
Kuromaku says, "Someone who plays for maximum rules benefit, rather than roleplaying. Which is why folks use falchions and not broadswords. Hyoko, the bottom line is: Yeah, we'd all like to get rid of MO, and buy more swimming and climbing, but it just ain't gonna happen. While the idea of being able to shift points when things change has merit, it also kinda makes it interesting. That is, it forces you to train the way you WANT, rather than what's "Best" because "Best" changes."
Heindel asks, "Let me make a point about min-maxing, though since you mention MO. If I may to show an example? We know it doesn’t do a thing currently but add to redux at a high cost, but many also know Staff’s working on ways to make it do more. That in mind, they have to still be aware that most don’t train in it. So if it is added to anything, it’s got to be done in such a way as to keep it not too unfriendly to those warriors, what have you, who don’t train in it. By knowing this and my training of Heindel, I'll train him in MO once every three or so trainings and bet on that I'll do fine if MO becomes something in the realms."
Kuromaku says, "Ah, phooey. Tough. Double tough."
Heindel says, "Bah. You knwo how everyone whines, Kuromaku, and SIMU has changed things due to massive whining."
Kuromaku says, "Ophion went and made a bolt spell for clerics. How many clerics you know train in aiming?"
Heindel says, "MO is a skill that everyone can use. I’m min-maxing by training how I do with that skill in mind is my point. Counting on downward tweaks like that were done to climbing areas. Playing the system, to put it bluntly. Trying to show Reife what you and I were sort of talking about. I was making the general statement that in the past many things get tweaked due to that sort of thing."
Kuromaku says, "Ah. That didn't come from management. That came from the area owner. The areas I own will not be as forgiving. There's some ugly stuff coming. I kid you not. And I will NOT make more Disney areas."
Reife asks, "where do you consider Disney areas?"
Kuromaku asks, "You gotta ask?"
Bleys says, "Pookas is the prime example."
Reife says, "Sheru us just an ATM machine. It’s not even fun like Disney."
Thrudh says, "Dragging people over a glassy cliff."
Bleys says, "Sheru when its slow. It gets to be murder when they are swarming though."
Kuromaku says, "Arch wights, ghoul masters was, pookas, nightmares."
Reife says, "Figs."
Bleys says, "Archwights had two extra trumpcards. Boil earth and clouds. They are only 20th."
Kuromaku says, "Yes, but if you brought a ranger, it didn't matter."
Reife says, "Warcats used to be when the skins were expensive."
Bleys says, "Liches need more spells."
Kuromaku says, "Areas that you couldn't die in unless you did something mighty dumb."
Heindel says, "Or are a two-hander. The realms are balanced for two-handers. One slip and you’re kissing the dirt."
Hyoko says, "Dirges."
Kuromaku says, "You get the idea."
Titaniia says, "What I wanted to say as far as minmaxing and the game in general is that it is set up so that the general rule is less risk/greatest reward. And those of use who trained way back when thinking we were following viable paths, well, we have to consider where the game has gone now. Anyways, after much moaning and whining myself, I've come to the conclusion that fixing those of us who are screwed up as a result is probably the wrong solution. That said, I'm working on a young character, minmaxing because in order to have fun at higher levels, you gotta do it. I love hunting, but as Titaniia, I have hated it for some time. And it gets irksome watching those around me taking less risky paths and gaining greater rewards. That’s an RL, not RP point of view, and it effects my RP. No way around it. So I will have a maxed character, get all that gain, and have fun again. And it’s kind of fun being a little monster."
Kuromaku asks, "And when they make it so that you HAVE to use bows? Hey, I understand the issue. And you know I play lots of younger characters. Because to be honest, I think the game ain't so hot after about level 25. Just an opinion. But you know how folks get. So go ahead. Keep the "character I spent 7000 hours making and I'm not going to give him up so you just have to change the game to support me." And take a hike."
Titaniia says, "I wasn't saying that."
Kuromaku says, "No, Tiny...you weren't."
Titaniia says, "I was saying the opposite."
Kuromaku says, "That's right. It's an unpopular statement. Now, don't take this to mean that I'm gonna stop trying to increase the "fun" area, but if you're not having fun at such and such a level, go back to where you were. And no amount of reallocating will change that."
Bleys asks, "A point on what she is saying. Any way to make it so that if the critter has no way of hitting you, you dont get XP for it? Or perhaps count your level as far as the critter is concerned to be the level of the highest spell cast on you? Watching legend clerics cast hours of Wall of Boredom on less-than-lord-aged characters."
Kuromaku says, "Again, the problem ain't the spell, it's the fact that too many people have it."
Bleys says, "If you take away the reason to use it that way it solves the problem."
Kuromaku says, "OK, let's just force people to reroll at 30."
Bleys says, "IF a 16-year-old is wearing a Wall of Force he would count as 50th as far as the critter he was hunting. That is what I was saying."
Kuromaku says, "No, I understood. What difference does it make?"
Bleys asks, "What difference does a 16th-level character wearing Wall make?"
Kuromaku asks, "No. What difference does it make if you consider them 50th?"
Bleys says, "It goes back to the less risk/greater rewards she was talking about. No XP. No advancing. IF they want to advance they would be limiting their spell amounts."
Titaniia says, "That only fixes lower levels, though."
Bleys says, "True."
Kuromaku says, "OK, last call. I have to wrap this up. Got some work to do."
You feel yourself being pulled away...