Informal Gathering of Warriors 7/4/98
With Special thanks to Lord Kuromaku and Lord Hyoko
Diffuse light streams in through the ricepaper shoji screens which enclose this large room. Thick cotton-wrapped tatami mats cover the polished pine floor. Wooden weapon racks are set against the walls filled with assorted weapons, both rattan and metal. You also see a low pine table with a chaya of warm sake on it, an elegant freestanding bamboo cage and a sliding screen.
Also in the room: Lord Cryheart (seated), Lady Kythyn, Lord Sindawe (seated), Lord Strathe (seated), Lord Aonghus (seated), Lord Kempur (seated), Lord Yarx (seated), Lord Morzathis (kneeling), Lord Thrudh (seated), Lord Welan (seated), Lady Titaniia (seated), Lord Khazaan (seated), Lady Deavon (seated), Lord Geoff (seated), GameMaster Lord Kuromaku
Obvious exits: out.
You see Lord Kuromaku Hikoemon the Giantman Warrior.
He appears to be in his 80's, has short, straight black hair, dark eyes, and black skin.
He is in good shape.
He is holding an imflass broadsword in his right hand and a single pale pink rose in his
left hand.
He is wearing a heavy backpack, a crystal amulet, a blackened mesh belt, a gold ring, a
dark hood, a dark silk satchel, some dark trousers, an ancient enruned urnon key, a
crafter's apron, a large sack, a jade-inlaid sheath, a dark shirt, and a ruby amulet.
Kuromaku says, "OK, let's begin. We'll discuss the rules for the new folks. The rules are as follows: While I am speaking, no one else is. While one of you are speaking, no on else is. If you wish to be recognized, please raise your hand, and you will be recognized in turn. While we are speaking, please keep movement to a minimum, as it makes the logs difficult to edit. Logs for the past meetings are available, generally from Hyoko. If he wishes not to distribute them any longer, I will take over the task. There are 3 issues I'd like to discuss today, after updating you on the past week's events. They are, in order: The perceived slighting of the "elder" warriors by me and Simutronics. The situation regarding Guildmaster Rollocks and accountability for actions, overall. Lastly, potential implementation of a maneuver attack. And, of course, all the normal conversation that we sidetrack on. I'd like to especially welcome Lords Welan and Geoff today, who have found time to be here today."
Khazaan says, "About the Rollocks thing. I would like to remind you as well as the other members of the panel that I will not be able to be here."
Kuromaku says, "Perhaps we will resolve this issue tonight. We need to discuss it. OK, weekly update. I built an entire Guild this weekend. Warrior Guild, lock, stock and barrel. Hired 4 Masters at Arms, a Guildmaster, a Training master, a Shop Master, one of those sneaky hooded guys for a dark room, and a Pugilist. Guildmaster Gurdjuk welcomes you all, as soon as you can get there. In that direction, that leads us nicely to the next addition. After a long, constructive conversation with Giacomo, we will be balancing Guild Skills to bring them more in line with what is perceived as necessary. Those changes, to be implemented in a decent time frame, i.e., when we get to it, include increasing the duration of Warcries, increasing the ability of FEINT by lowering the threshhold of stance shift, allowing skilled members of Berserk to break out of stuns, webs, immobility WHILE stunned, webbed, immobile, and replacement of WTR SPIT with a maneuver attack. There will be others, mostly cosmetic and systems based, but those are the main ones. They stem from a desire to appropriately balance the Rogue's Guild skills with the existing WG skills and just plain long-term, real-life testing."
Kythyn asks, "Will the training challenges of the older warriors be addressed as we have discussed?"
Kuromaku asks, "In regards to Guild Skills?"
Kythyn says, "Aye, fer Warcries and Tackling, in particular."
Kuromaku says, "They have been. The recent Guild News says that, but you missed the implication. It's immediately a +15-+25 boost against most of the unarmored critters, which is the part that was giving most people trouble since most of the older critters are unarmored."
Deavon asks, "Forgive my ignorance, m'Lord, as I have nae finished reading all the logs of prior meetings. Where might this new guild ye built be located?"
Kuromaku says, "Elsewhere."
Geoff says, "I would hope that the Rogue's Guild will happen soon. More improvements just for warriors is going to leave a rather disgruntled bunch of rogues out there."
Kuromaku says, "Geoff, the changes I have just outlined are occurring as a function of the release of the Rogue's Guild. The Guild abilities use similar systems, and the engines will receive tweaks simultaneously, so none of the changes I've mentioned will preceed the release of the Rogues Guild. Again, no release date as of yet. For the record, I am coding the RG with Giacomo and making sure that both classes get unique skills that suit the class without being out of balance. Based on the conversations and coding last night, I think we're doing just fine on that count. Kythyn, and those who were curious about the recent shift in MAvA...NEWS 14."
News 14
Dateline 7/1/98: WARRIOR GUILD SKILLS UPDATE
The way MAvA is calculated for creatures has been changed. Creatures no longer get an automatic +25 bonus for not wearing armor. However, some creatures' Tackle MD will go up by 10. While it may appear that several creatures have suddenly become more difficult to tackle, they are actually becoming easier to tackle by varying degrees.
Creature MD may continue to be tweaked as this change goes through 'real world' testing.
END NEWS ITEM
Welan asks, "May I ask for a clarification on the intended role of the Guild and Guild Skills are supposed to fill in the game, i.e., how useful are they supposed to be in practical terms?"
Kuromaku asks, "According to whom?"
Welan asks, "The Official Position, if there is one?"
Kuromaku says, "The Official position is that the Guilds are designed to be roleplaying tools. I take a somewhat more liberal approach to that, which means that they are there to assist in Roleplaying. To be Read: makes it so it's fun to roleplay, i.e., evens the balance some. Some of the Guilds will not provide such "useful" abilities. Expect the Wizard's Guild to not have anything to do with any physical abilities at all. It just so happens that the arms-users’ Guilds are being build first. Consequently, it may look as if everyone's getting something to boost their attacks. Uh-uh. Just not so. Warriors are, Rogues are. Bards MIGHT. Everyone else? Nope. At least, not right now. But let's be honest. Given the rate at which these get built, it may well not be the case by the time the rest are built. Does that answer your question, Welan?"
Welan says, "Very well. More insight then I've ever gotten before. Thanks."
Khazaan grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that he isn't there anymore.
Thrudh asks, "Do certain creatures retain the +25 MAvA bonus for multiple legs or giant size? Or was there a boost to their MD? We'd talked about that before. Don't want TK's to be Tackle fodder."
Kuromaku says, "There was a boost to the MD in those cases. We simply removed the +25 for unarmored. OK, last bit of news. After speaking to Fawn at length this week, I am convinced of her committment to this class. Several decisions have been made to help this class. Make no mistake about it. I am not at liberty to discuss those decisions, nor their implications. I apologize for that. All I can tell you is that a number of the issues that I have been fighting for have been resolved in a most satisfactory manner. When I am able to communicate them, I will."
Thrudh asks, "Did we get Berr's idea implemented, where we bellow, and hobbits wet their trousers?"
Kuromaku says, "No, Thrudh. That will be a Berr-only verb."
Pyranth asks, "Time frame for implimentation?"
Kuromaku says, "Varying. A lot of it has to do with new systems coming in in the next 6 months, projected. Some has to do with the Guild system. Some has to do with other systems. Some is just flat out normal, common sense stuff. To Berr's point. When my armor heats up, why do I have to go find a wizard to cool off? I'm on an ISLAND! Duly noted. OK, that's the weekly update."
Titaniia says, "I had a question having to do with the issue that Dalimar brought up a few weeks back, about warriors becoming more immune to fear, possibly. Was wondering one, if the issue was still under consideration, and two, would that affect Warcries?"
Kuromaku says, "1) Yes. A lot of the SGMs like the idea. 2) Mmm, maybe. I hadn't thought about that. I'll have to add that to my proposal."
Kuromaku says, "OK, let's get started on the new issues. First issue of the day. The perceived "slighting" of the elder warriors by Simutronics, and more to the point, me. Let's ask a few of the slighted parties. Feel slighted, Welan?"
Welan says, "No, Kuromaku. I've never felt slighted. I have always felt that Simu had a few design problems, but not that it was intentional."
Kuromaku says, "Geoff? Feeling slighted?"
Geoff says, "I never said that I felt slighted, just took issue with the wording of a particular post."
Kuromaku says, "Ah. OK. Then I think we're talking about Berr. Would you say so, Kythyn?"
Kythyn says, "Nae, Master, tis nae slight, but lack of communication or response to suggestions from those with more experience than the rest."
Kuromaku asks, "Am I the only one in the room who perceived Berr's comments to mean that he wasn't interested in talking? That he only wanted results, and would be properly happy when he SAW them? Lord Berr has been invited at every meeting we've had. The fact that I feel no particular urgency to please him, rather than any one of you, he may have issue with. I can't address that."
Kythyn says, "I cannae speak for Lord Berr, though I suspect Sir Welan and Laird Geoff could. Simu and by extension ye, Master, have little credibility left. If ye wished to, ye coud correct that. If ye choose not to, then we can only wait and accept yer gifts."
Kuromaku says, "My credibility is not an issue, I think. I have delivered everything I have promised, and in a timely fashion. I have told people when something would NOT be coming."
Kythyn says, "That does not mean all of us will choose to take a wait and see attitude, however. Some of us see active participation as more appropriate punishment. May I present an example?"
Kempur just left.
Kuromaku says, "Certainly, Kythyn."
Kythyn says, "Lord Berr once suggested that ye grant warriors the ability to see what a god sees when examing the tools of our trade, modified by trainings as to accuracy. If ye respnded to what seems a simple enough idea, I missed it."
Kuromaku says, "I have. I mentioned that I agreed with it, and that it would be a function of forging, and mentioned it before Berr did. So I'm a little confused as to why he's ticked off that he doesn't have it right now. It's an old, old issue, and one that's being addressed. Go ahead and blame me for all the lack of response in the last 8 years, folks. It's what I'm here for, but you'll forgive me if I don't much care."
Kythyn says, "Ye would have to ask him, though why one would wait when waiting is what we already do most, is something I cannae understand. Do not confuse suspicion with blame."
Kuromaku asks, "Kythyn, did I say I would address your training issue with the Guild Skill?"
Kythyn says, "Nae, I believe ye said the Guild dinnae deliver, Master."
Kuromaku says, "That's right. They don't. You still need to find an appropriate critter, and I said it was my job to make sure that they were available. Now they are, for each and every one of you. Maybe not on the mainland, maybe not on Teras. You might have to move to find them, but they exist now. No mistake."
Kythyn says, "we disagree on that, for a journey to Pinefar for a set of reps is nae reasonable to me. So I wait."
Kuromaku says, "Your choice, but don't tell me that you CAN'T get reps."
Kythyn says, "Actually, tis yers, Master, I cannae correct the situation, only live with it."
Kuromaku says, "Cheap excuse. Suit yourself, Lady Kythyn."
Kythyn says, "Aye, milord, I agree"
Kuromaku asks, "Oh, Kythyn?"
Kythyn asks, "Aye, Master?"
Kuromaku points at a massive pyrothag.
Kuromaku asks, "Warcry it, please?"
Kythyn glares at a massive pyrothag and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
CS: +254 - TD: +288 + CvA: +25 + d100: +97 == +88
Warded off!
Kythyn says, "As ye see, Master, warded."
Kuromaku says, "I see the issue."
Kythyn says, "thank ye Master"
Geoff says, "I have been in the lands a long time now. Starting to forget when I actually started. Many of the changes to the game benefited warriors and rogues: the removal of heavy hide, improvements to armor, and finally DF-redux. Unfortunately, magic still is the most powerful solution to combat in the lands. So while great progress has been made, parity has not been achieved. I have great concerns about ambush. Are we at a point it can be discussed?"
Kuromaku says, "How about next week? It's a serious issue and a huge point of contention all the way around. I'm happy to make it a prime issue next week, if that's satisfactory?"
Geoff nods.
Kuromaku says, "Thank you for your forbearance."
Titaniia says, "First, I just wanted to say about Berr, if I might, I think Berr has gotten an awful lot of RSN from an awful lot of people. He's bringing a lot of baggage to the issue, and I think it’s understandable why he is cautious, and you're getting the brunt of that."
Kuromaku says, "Cautious isn't aggressive."
Titaniia says, "That, and I just wanted to remind everyone. We finally have someone who has actually said they are here to help us. Let’s not bite the hand that feeds us without an awfully good reason."
Kuromaku says, "Not looking for pats on the back, Tiny."
Titaniia says, "That wasn't for you."
Kuromaku says, "I'm simply explaining why I don't much care if the "elder warriors" want to bark at me. I'm all open to conversation and will address any issue put in front of me."
Geijon appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Titaniia says, "You know how upset I am about the state of things, but I don't see attacking you as a reasonable way to get that fixed."
Kuromaku says, "What I'd rather not have to do is "justify" my existence. If you choose to believe that I'm not here to help, fine. Then don't communicate with me. Easier to do than communicate."
Titaniia says, "Though I don't think anyone present feels that way."
Ruffelin appears in a flash of light, looking slightly disoriented.
Kuromaku says, "Oh, I don't know. Fact is, plain and simple, that I'm not here to serve Berr. I'm here to serve the Game, and the Class after that."
Thrudh says, "I don't think that was his point."
Kuromaku says, "Hey...I know, Thrudh. He's frustrated, and he loves to take it out on someone."
Thrudh says, "I was more under the impression that Berr didn't want to talk because he was frustrated and because he didn't want to get his hopes up. When he talks with the GM's, he gets his hopes up, and in the past has waited, and waited, and waited. So he just wanted to get his points out and leave it at that."
Kuromaku says, "Fine. I'm all in with that, Thrudh, but then don't start spouting how I refuse to communicate with him, which is the issue here."
Welan says, "Two quick comments that I hope might give a little insight into some of the feelings here. 1) If I look at the changes that have been made in, say, the past 2 years I'd say things weren't progressing too badly. However, I've been here for 5 years before that, and those WERE stagnant years as far as warriors go. It's not fair, but I think you’re dealing with some of the fallout from that legacy. That’s some of the frustration I think you hear occasionally."
Kuromaku says, "I'm happy to deal with the fallout, not the accusation that I refuse to communicate, because I think Berr's comment is not that things aren't happening, but that I've somehow slighted him by refusing to communicate."
Welan says, "2) In some of the changes that have been made in the past that were supposed to help us, when the details of those changes were made known on the boards, a lot of us more experienced warriors posted that if you do "X" then "Y" would happen. The response from Simu was always, ‘Don't worry, that’s not the case at all.’ Then, when it turns out 6 months after they did 'X' and we saw that 'Y' did happen, well, you understand where that frustration comes from?"
Kuromaku asks, "Welan, can we get out of the past a moment? I am FULLY cognizant of the past. A good portion of that was the result of a lack of experience. In other words, the reason why the Guru positions were formed. I am a relatively new GM...under a year. I am also one of the only GMs who has carried at least one warrior to legend. That's not slighting the rest of the staff."
Welan says, "Yes, Kuromaku. I'm just trying to say that the past can color our perceptions of the future, if we aren't careful about how we look at it. That MAY be part of what your seeing from Berr and some other people."
Kuromaku says, "Welan, as I've said before, any comments you wish to make in regards to me lying about durations or timeframes or effects, or what I'm going to do or not, that's fine. I have no qualms with taking that heat. I have to acknowledge the past. I do so freely. The charge is that I refuse to communicate, or that I won't listen to the "elders" and give it the attention it so clearly deserves."
Thrudh says, "I think we're getting sidetracked here, folks. We understand that you communicate, Kuro. I don't think anyone here has said differently."
Kuromaku says, "Then perhaps, Thrudh, you might ask Kythyn if she sees it that way."
Welan says, "Well, you communicate better then 99% of the designers I've dealt with However, I think you may be seeing some residual resentment that has nothing to do with what you’re currently doing."
Strathe grows indistinct. Slowly it dawns on you that he isn't there anymore.
Geijon says, "To add to Thrudh's statement, yes, in the past many were frustrated, but the key point is that it’s the past, and we're here to decide and help choose our future, not debate about the inconsistencies of what has happened in the past. So what we're debating has no bearing on our future, and thus is the past."
Kuromaku says, "If Berr wants to communicate, he has my e-mail address, AIM address, and knows when we meet. He didn't want to hear what we could or couldn't do. Just dictated a list of demands, and call me when you're done."
Geoff says, "I saw the post. Just looked like Berr being Berr to me. Coming back around to the present. Just a note, by the way. If Berr took the time to give you a list of ideas at the last meeting, I would say that the interest is there. I am concerned about the combat ability of one-handed weapon users who do not ambush. Any thoughts that can be discussed without getting into ambush?"
Kuromaku says, "No, Geoff. But on the other hand, I think our last issue of the night will deal with that."
Sindawe says, "I would like to see the OHE weapon issue discussed, since I am one and do not hide."
Kuromaku says, "We'll deal with that later."
Kuromaku says, "OK, this issue is closed. Next issue, and a fun one...Not. For those of you who know, Lord Rollocks has been charged by a Warrior Guild Tribunal with conduct unbecoming to a Guildmaster. To wit, use of Guild Skills to kill another warrior. Charges have been levelled by other Guildmasters and a Tribunal formed to determine a course of action, to determine appropriate penalties if necessary. I am bringing this up here for a specific reason. We are NOT trying Rollocks now. I am asking you if this is what you want. You've asked before for accountability and responsibility to police your own. You now have it. Based on the scenario, is it appropriate, and should this be something that we continue?"
Thrudh says, "We should do it this way. It's more emphatic when we do it, I think. Can't blame Simu for it when their peers give 'em the boot."
Kuromaku says, "Folks, this is a serious situation and has serious implications. Based on Guild Skills and their use in the game, expulsion of a warrior of Rollocks' age can mean unviability."
Titaniia says, "Well, as the Guildmaster leveling the charges, I have a few notes from what I see and have experienced since doing so as well as thoughts on the process."
Kuromaku says, "Tiny, you are A Guildmaster leveling charges. Several commented. You were merely first."
Titaniia asks, "Firstly, is it appropriate to think of myself as the prosecutor? If I am not the one, why am I responsible for determining what charges are being leveled?"
Kuromaku says, "No. The Tribunal is the prosecuter, i.e., me. You merely have defined the charge, and, as I say, it was not done in a vaccuum, by you alone. You also made other charges that are not at issue here."
Titaniia says, "Yes, but of course, you realize that the accused sees it that way. I did?"
Kuromaku says, "I can clarify that. You called him a murderer. So are we all. That isn't the issue."
Titaniia says, "I understand why that is not at issue."
Kuromaku says, "The issue is use of Guild Abilities against another "player" with intent to harm."
Titaniia asks, "Ok..I have a few thoughts..if I may?"
Kuromaku says, "Quick ones. This is gonna get heated."
Titaniia says, "Firstly, I think the issue of how Guildmasters are held accountable versus members is very important, and the loss of GdM status is as important an issue as that of expulsion or suspension. Also, I think from an RP point of view, this is a wonderful way to deal with issues. It makes us more a Guild and less a bunch of warriors."
Pyranth says, "If we are to do this I believe a code of conduct needs to be posted in the guild."
Kuromaku says, "Your Oath is your oath, Pyranth, and Rollocks has taken it TWICE."
Welan says, "I don't know the specifics of the incident in question, but I'll make a general comment that I'd prefer to see a much more liberal use of lockouts by the GM's in the game in general rather than the stripping of in-game abilities as punishment. Again, I don't know the specifics. Just a general sentiment."
Kuromaku says, "I can't condone that in this case. I agree with the sentiment, of sorts, but this comes back to policing your own."
Geoff says, "Two comments. 1) If a high-level warrior becomes 'unviable' due to loss of guild skills, there is either a serious flaw in the character's makeup, or you have a much larger balance problem with warriors."
Kuromaku says, "Disagree. He's been a Guild Member for 30 trainings, and his training has taken into account his Guild skills. It's the equivalent of me saying "OK, Geoff, no using one-handers anymore."
Geoff says, "2) Penitence. This is a opportunity for excellent role-playing. I would strongly argue against a permanent ban."
Kuromaku says, "And I do agree with you here."
Geoff says, "Then, in that case, the Warrior's Guild has become a requirement for warriors rather than an option. I see it in an entirely different light at the moment, one of necessity not choice."
Kuromaku says, "Geoff, I believe you don't need the Guild any more than you need CoL or Voln. But acknowledgement that the game revolves around the assumptions that people DO belong to those groups can cause folks fits."
Geoff says, "I do not need the Guild to hunt, and I gave up COL and really do not use Voln, but I sure do need the Guild to defend myself. That is now absolutely apparent."
Kuromaku asks, "Defend yourself against other players? That's the point, and THAT'S why this is an issue with me and why I'm so adamant about enforcing this stuff. Use of a Guild Skill with intent to harm others in some way will be punished to my best ability, and I'm a pretty good punisher."
Aonghus says, "I thought unprovoked PvP was against Simu policy. If they are using said skills to harm without the victim's consent, are they not breaking the Simu policy? I'm concerned that our "RP" portion of it, which I like, if a way can be made to have it work, might counter the policy and deepen issue."
Kuromaku says, "Well spoken. That is an issue that I'm debating with others. GMs. If I remove the free will, how is that in some way any better than simply removing the ability to target other players?"
Aonghus says, "If you remove the ability to target, you'll have to have that done with most sorceror spells, etc."
Kuromaku says, "An option that gets debated on a regular basis. The fact is that we will NEVER remove that ability. At least, that's my understanding."
Aonghus says, "I actually have a suggestion for that. It's kind of stolen from DR. Have an official ‘challenge’ function that allows the person to accept or decline."
Kuromaku says, "Can't do it, Aonghus. Let me explain. Each and every one of you has the choice to act as you see fit as long as you're willing to accept the consequences. My feeling is that lockouts are OOC, and, as such, change the dynamic. In this case you're allowed to use Guild Skills to kill others, and I'm not going to lock you out, but your fellow Guild Members might chuck you out. And that's the consequence of your action."
Aonghus says, "And many won't care about that, which leaves the victims quite unsatisfied."
Kuromaku says, "Hey, I assure you that Rollocks is VERY concerned about his loss of Guild abilities right now."
Aonghus says, "Perhaps he is, but there are many who won't care."
Kuromaku says, "If they don't care then they only get to choose once, but that's just, and the Guild is a better place without them."
Aonghus says, "And if they do, the non-warriors who get locked out, since there are no abilities or guilds for them to lose, will see it as the warrior ones are getting off easy."
Kuromaku says, "Good point, which is why I'm NOT addressing the murder. Simu policy handles that, but Guild Law dictates the behavior."
Thrudh says, "First, I don't recall any oath when joining. I keep hearing about it, and it makes me curious as to when I may have agreed to it. Second, I don't necessarily see using skills against another as abuse."
Kythyn asks, "Was it always in place?"
Kuromaku says, "Yes."
Thrudh says, "I don't want to have every warrior that defends himself by drilling a sorcerer into the dust being booted from the guild. Titaniia had another warrior check the oath. I don't see it as saying no violence. I don't recall the wording exactly, but it was pretty vague. There is a major difference between harassing people with the skills, and using them in defense. The way that it's sounding, even in defense gets the boot."
Titaniia says, "It does say something about using it friviously or agressively, or something that makes it clear that while defense is allright, attacking isn't. Perhaps we could have it posted by Bert?"
Kuromaku says, "Let's get my friend here initiated so he can tell us the Oath."
Kurobuddy waves.
Titaniia invites Kurobuddy to become a member in the Warrior Guild.
Morzathis invites Kurobuddy to become a member in the Warrior Guild.
Kuromaku asks, "Kurobuddy, by applying to the Warrior Guild you must swear by this oath: 'I solemnly vow to uphold and promote the Warrior Guild. I shall not use the skills I learn to harm or steal from others for my own amusement. I shall at all times maintain the Guild's positive image as a group of warriors, first in nobility, best in tactics, foremost in bravery.' Do you agree to abide by this oath?"
Kuromaku says, "That's the oath."
Kurobuddy just left.
Thrudh says, "Using the skills to harm for amusement is hardly using them to murder when you're angry over a perceived slight. I was only arguing that I don't want to see every warrior that uses the skills being punished. I think it's warranted at times, and Kuro's the fella to talk to."
Kythyn says, "This debate is more appropriate to the trial. My vote is we Do want to try and punish transgressors, separate from policy. But PLEASE, no lawyering. And I dinnae agreee that skills or no skills make a warrior unviable."
Kuromaku says, "Duly noted, Kythyn, except that the Tribunal is NOT a trial. Military law is significantly different than US Criminal Law. I won't go into details, but the idea of plea bargaining won't go over well here."
Hyoko says, "Earlier you said, 'And his training has taken into account his guild skills.' Perhaps I am missing something in my training. How does one take into account Guild skills in one's training?"
Kuromaku says, "Certain styles of hunting lend themselves to applying Guild Skills which make certain things less desirable while training, i.e., he stops learning ambush because he expects to warcry which effectively stuns his opponent. Or tackling. Or disarm."
Sindawe says, "I was just gonna make a comment about the oath. I think a new initiate should repeat the oath instead of just seeing it scroll by like background noise and accepting. Kinda like when ya join Voln."
Kuromaku says, "Perhaps. And let the record show that the Rogue's Guild oath is a LOT more explicit about using it against other players."
Titaniia says, "Just wanna point out two things real fast. First, that while some people may believe that they "learned" the skills they have a "right" to them, there is no disputing that GdM status is a privilege. Secondly, I do think there is a bit of an RP issue with suddenly "forgetting" your skills. Not sure how to address that IC."
Kuromaku says, "The Guild is a privilege, not a right. Sure there is. I've discussed the issue with Giacomo, and we can simply remove the Guild bonus from the skills which would, for all intents, make them utterly unusable. Your Guild Bonus is the multiplier vs. your age. Because your Guild Ranks will be 0..."
Titaniia says, "That would be a lot more in character, but I think GdMs should be held to a higher standard. Is the option of removing ranks also open to the tribunal?"
Kuromaku says, "No, Tiny."
Thrudh says, "First, for Hyoko, one example would be discontinuing training in picking locks, since we now have batter. And second, I think we've determined that the Tribunal is a good idea, we just disagree, perhaps, on what leeway we have."
Kythyn just disappeared.
Pyranth asks, "You mentioned that stripping ranks was not an option. Could Guild Mastery be revoked?"
Kuromaku says, "Sure. I can easily remove the title. Last time I did that he was reinitiated in 3 days. So I think that it's kind of a null punishment."
Thrudh says, "With little effect. It's mostly a title. The tangible benefits for being a Guild Master are very few."
Titaniia asks, "Can we ban someone from the rank?"
Kuromaku says, "Not right now, no."
Thrudh says, "Maybe you're missing what I was trying to get at. If I lost my Guild Mastership right now, all it would mean is that I can't give double reps, for the most part. To someone who doesn't care about RP, it's meaningless, really."
Kuromaku says, "And you couldn't initiate."
Thrudh says, "Right, but it takes 3."
Kuromaku says, "I understand exactly what it means."
Deavon says, "I am concerned about people getting caught up in the drama of the issue and the roleplaying abilities, and that they carefully consider what punishments they can mete out that are within their ability. This is a chance to try to exact some justice, not a chance to win an RPA. There are some concerns from some folks that this opportunity will be used as just that."
Kuromaku says, "I'm not issuing RP awards. Don't worry about it."
Deavon says, "Aye, but tis already whispered about the lands that the tribunal will be more RP than justice."
Kuromaku says, "Deavon, this is an RP situation. And "justice?" Who metes justice? Ultimately, as I mentioned before, I could just chuck him out of the Guild and just be accountable to Fawn, who, I assure you, would let me do what I thought was right in this case. Instead, I've chosen to give the decision to you all, and I'll enforce it so that "justice" won't be served, it'll be served to the extent that you all feel is appropriate or according to a jury of Rollocks' peers. Lastly, some people are using this as a personal venue to lambast Rollocks. And, frankly, that will stop. This is about proper Guild behavior, not about whether or not Rollocks is an appropriate player, nice guy, or roleplayer. OK, we can discuss this for hours more, and I'd rather not. We have happier things to discuss. So here's what I'm gonna do. Is there anyone here that thinks that we're proceeding inappropriately? Last chance, folks. Speak up if we're not serving the common good."
Pyranth says, "I do agree. I would also like the Tribunal's findings put in a banner that is sent to all Guild members."
Kuromaku says, "Duly noted. OK, this issue is closed. We'll pick it up next week, after the Tribunal. Last item. I'm removing WTR SPIT. It was a mistake. I finally convinced people to remove it. It ISN'T coming out any time soon, meaning before the Rogue's Guild opens, but it IS coming out. In retrospect, spit was designed to start fights. Thinking about it, it worked. Gee, like we needed to start more PvP. So having said that, it's history. Gone the way of Heraldry. Now, the tricky part. What do I replace it with? My logic was, hey, how about a good solid maneuver attack? So here's what I'm thinking. WTR SBASH."
Kuromaku bashes Titaniia with his shield, throwing her off balance!
Kuromaku says, "Because it's a cycle skill, and has a roll involved, I can make it do a few things. RT, Loss of Balance, and Stun. It addresses several issues. One, an added bonus for shield users that isn't there right now. Next, a maneuver attack that's gonna piss off casters to no end. Third, a fighting chance for warriors."
Morzathis says, "Ne'er mind, master. I was gonna comment on makin maneuver attacks a circle but that sounds much betters."
Kuromaku says, "Oh, that's coming, too, Morz. This is just a first step."
Geoff asks, "Any thoughts on tying this to the shield skill?"
Kuromaku says, "It will be. I'm thinking ranks, shield skill, encumbrance, CM, and strength, in varying proportions. Oh, those factors are just ideas right now. I haven't formally proposed any formulae yet."
Welan says, "First, I think it's a great idea. The devil is going to be in the details of how it works, as they say"
Kuromaku says, "No, I have that already, Welan. It's a warrior trick. The base engine is there."
Kuromaku recites:
"Player:WTR SBASH
Roll vs. skill
Critter affected
RT given"
Welan says, "One comment I'd like to mention is, that unlike quite a few other maneuvers, I don't think wearing heavy armor should hinder your ability to shield bash."
Kuromaku says, "Oh, hell no. It'll help. The heavier the better. This is a power move, no question. Hobbits in leather armor are gonna bounce off big things."
Thrudh asks, "So encumbrance is a bonus?"
Kuromaku says, "Not as such, Thrudh. I ain't counting coins and the like. Don't worry."
Aonghus says, "Well, a silly thought here. Might be part of this or an idea for something else. When a person "brawls" they often get the largest thing and bash others over the head or some other body part with it. Isn't that much like what a shield bash is? Taking the shield and bashing it? Which would mean, brawl should/could help."
Kuromaku says, "Yes, Aonghus. I wasn't going to mention that. It's possible, but it's also offhand. Shields are held in the left. So brawl and two weapon? I'm looking at a lot of factors. You can left jab, but it's a set-up for the right. Very few folks can hammer someone with either hand well. I'll have a look."
Pyranth asks, "Two things. Could targes also have a puncture attack, and what happens to the spit rank once the trick is gone?"
Kuromaku says, "OK, certain shields MIGHT do more damage. I need to look into that. A wall shield might knock folks over, while a buckler might stun more. I have to explore that possibility. As far as flat damage, no. I don't want to turn a shield into a weapon. Yet. Not with this skill. It's too limited. As far as Spit ranks, they'll be shifted over to SBASH like Heraldry was split into 3 skills. You just had 'em one day. You'll just have this skill one day. I'd imagine everyone will know in a hurry. I picture walking out hunting, and seeing hundreds of warriors knocking over critters, stunning them, feinting more. In other words, damn fun-looking combat, which is the point. And in my opinion, that adds to RPing."
Aonghus says, "Like when a fiter Berserks, but I wanna be able to DROOL in Berserk."
Kuromaku says, "Fine, Aonghus. You'll have it in a few days. Let the record show that I'm adding DROOL to Berserk just for Aonghus. How about I add about 3 or 4 more Berserk things? Just to be silly."
Morzathis asks, "Can ya add stuff to bashin? It gets borin seein the same thing over and over again. Hit, hit, break."
Kuromaku says, "Use different things, Morz. I use my head, other boxes, table legs, bricks, all sorts of things."
Welan says, "I'm sure it'll get exciting the next time Sayzors decides to invent a new trap."
Kuromaku says, "I've seen 'em. I'm working the Rogues’ Guild, remember? OK, let's wrap this up. Any other issues?"
Welan says, "2 things to request for future agendas, not neccesarily next week. 1) If Multi-Opps training will ever have a real use?"
Kuromaku says, "I can't get into that. The Simu answer is yes, but I'm not at all involved in that."
Welan says, "2) Critter/Area design for warriors."
Kuromaku exclaims, "Where ya been, Welan?! I've been getting some great ideas for critters, and, boy, am I gonna get some people pissed off. Hyoko came up with 2 critters, and one of 'em actually dupes a critter I had designed already, which should neatly handle a mess of issues for us all, as well as make traps fun again."
Welan says, "It's not only the critters you design....but the areas"
Kuromaku says, "Areas. Yeah. I know. I'm still hoping to create a "dead zone" where no magic will work, nor signs nor symbols. It's going to be fun for arms users, but not much else."
Aonghus says, "Speaking of the "warrior" critters, it used to be that gargoyles, workers, and defenders were more fun for claidh/2-hand users. When you hit them, a blurb followed the main bit of damage, giving you extra because of the fact that you used a claidh on a garg. I, personally, miss that touch."
Kuromaku says, "That's a function of critter design. I can look into that. I've never made a critter before, and it isn't easy, but I'm gonna try when I get a chance."
Geoff says, "The concept of a primarily warrior area was tried with Claedesbrim Castle. The biggest drawback besides the complaints of the spell-slingers was that clerics and empaths could not get to you to do a rescue."
Kuromaku says, "Uh, I believe the phrase is ‘Tough?’"
Geoff says, "I am still concerned about the 'need' to have a warrior in a hunting party."
Kuromaku says, "Not worth starting again, Geoff. Yeah, it's an issue. It won't be forever."
Welan says, "One quick comment about what Geoff said about Claedesbrim. The real problem wasn't that foggers couldn't get to you. It was that once you got hurt or dead, it became impossible to get out because of the cliff. If you can drag or crawl out of an area, it's OK if ye can't be fogged."
Kuromaku says, "I agree. OK, let's close. Thanks for coming. We meet same time, every week. Tribunal for Rollocks is tomorrow at 5pm EST."