This is the log of the seventh Warriors’ Meeting held August 1, 1998 at 3:00 p.m. EST. The recording was kindly done by Lady Titaniia and the log distilled from her notes.

[Kuromaku's Dojo]

Diffuse light streams in through the ricepaper shoji screens which enclose this large room. Thick cotton-wrapped tatami mats cover the polished pine floor. Wooden weapon racks are set against the walls filled with assorted weapons, both rattan and metal. You also see a sliding screen, an elegant freestanding bamboo cage and a low pine table with a chaya of warm sake on it.

Also in the room: Lord Pyranth (seated), Lord Gaq (seated), Lord Thrudh (seated), Lord Reife (seated), Lord Geoff (seated), Lord Dwu (seated), Lady Lauranathalasa (seated), Lord Khazaan (seated), Lord Ankhan (seated), Lady Titaniia (seated), GameMaster Lord Kuromaku

Obvious exits: none.

You see Lord Kuromaku Hikoemon the Half-Elf Warrior.
He appears to be in his 80's, has short, straight black hair, dark eyes, and black skin.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing a blackened mesh belt, a dark hood, a dark silk satchel, some dark trousers, a jade-inlaid sheath, a crafter's apron, an ancient enruned urnon key, and a dark shirt.

Kuromaku says, "Lord Hyoko is our scribe, and he's not present this week, so Tiny will be taking that role. OK, what I did this week. Not much. Busy in real life. I did start coding the tweaks to the reps equation for warriors 80+, and I did a bit more scoping on Shield Bash, but most of the week was shifts, fielding problems, fixing bugs, and Rogues’ Guild building. To that end, I started a two-week vacation yesterday, and I'm spending about half of it in Elanthia. Hopefully, I'll get a bunch of stuff done. OK, topics for the day. Two-weapon combat, warcries, and warrior fluff. Let's start with two-weapon combat. My position: Two-weapon combat is designed to be a viable alternative to a single weapon. It is NOT designed to be more than that. Indeed, the idea that you would somehow be more powerful with two weapons, instead of one and a shield, or a two-hander, is kinda tough. Having used two weapons before I find that, usually, I end up feinting with one weapon, which gives me a cleaner strike with the other, as opposed to actually attacking with two. I never really intend to hit with the first. I might, but if I do, it's somewhat off target. OK, comments?"

Ankhan says, "Okay, I'd just like to say that I like the idea of feinting. Sounds like you can really make a new kind of warrior, instead of the typical single hand and shield or the two-handed claidhmore user. I mean, more variety."

Khazaan asks, "Hyoko is a two-weapon warrior, I would love to have his input on this. Any way we can bring this topic up again when he is present?"

Kuromaku says, "Perhaps we'll discuss it again."

Lauranathalasa says, "About the feint technique. I have trouble feinting kobolds. Is it age based at all?"

Kuromaku feints high, Lauranathalasa buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!

Lauranathalasa says, "Nice. I moved up 3 stances."

Kuromaku says, "It's level, rank, target difficulty, and open roll."

Dwu asks, "But how long that take fer both ye to recover?"

Kuromaku says, "5 seconds, but she's up 3 stances. OK, my rationale is this: Right now, two-weapon combat is swinging two weapons. Nice, but silly. It's impossible. Try it."

Geoff says, "I had thought that two-weapon combat should have been more historically accurate, as in a blow started with a basket-hilted broadsword which the opponent blocks but then misses the dirk shoved into the ribs, or the type of combat that The Royal Armouries of the Tower demonstrate in the Masters of Defense Video. The off-hand weapon is usually smaller, such as a dirk or dagger."

Kuromaku says, "All correct. The first weapon is a feint. Always. Not to say that the blow won't hurt if it hits. Indeed, Master Musashi says that the first blow allows you to "gather the opponent" or force his weapon to defend, which leaves you free to attack with the other hand. The point is that two-weapon combat is less realistic than we like and, as such, provides less benefit. So here's an idea to discuss. What if a two-weapon combat strike was one blow with the off-hand weapon at a unparried DS? If you have a sword and a dirk, and I attack you, the sword will be defended against. It's a ruse. Now, the sword attacks against the parried DS, i.e., normal DS. The dirk cannot be parried by the opponent’s weapon. It's already busy unless you're a damned good swordsman, and I've met quite a few. In that case, the dirk goes against an unparried DS, that is, straight offense."

Geoff says, "The only problem I see with that is the basic ineffectiveness of daggers today."

Geoff removes a gleg skaen from inside his claidhmore sheath.

Geoff says, "This was once a very deadly weapon. Now it is more for show."

Kuromaku says, "I'd suspect we'd see an influx of use of those if the off-hand weapon MUST be a dagger, rapier, knife, or dirk."

Ankhan asks, "I'd just like to say that that is a great idea because merchants could sell heavier, meaner-looking weapons while also selling innocent, deadly dirks/knives/daggers that cause horrible damage. They can be sold as a twosome, I mean. Y'know what I mean?"

Kuromaku asks, "What about weapons that are a set in and of themselves, i.e., TURN FALCHION?"

Kuromaku pulls a thin dagger from the pommel of his falchion.

Kuromaku asks, "Something like that?"

Reife says, "Pocketed weapons."

Kuromaku says, "Not exactly. But weapons WITHIN weapons."

Geoff says, "Quite of bit of historical basis for that."

Kuromaku says, "Yes, there is, Geoff. A tanto historically was kept alongside the katana in the same scabbard. Often used for a utility knife. It could also be used for throwing or a surprise attack."

Titaniia asks, "Err, would you be taking DS down to 0? Because, really, we all know now that AS doesn't matter. So is it really going to be reasonable to ask two-weapon fighters to make their killing strike with a dagger without a significant uptweak? Or have I totally missed the point?"

Kuromaku says, "No, I wouldn't. You've hit the point. What good is a feint and a dagger against full plate armor?"

Lauranathalasa says, "a skilled fighter can always find the opening in an opponent’s armor, but a dagger wouldn't hurt much, if the feint works."

Kuromaku asks, "Yup, and against thick armor that a 4-inch blade couldn't penetrate?"

Lauranathalasa asks, "Wouldn't yer dagger be allowed to go against skin and not armor?"

Kuromaku says, "No."

Geoff says, "If the opponent was wearing field plate, then perhaps the dagger would attack against chainmail, which would be accurate and give a small bonus to the dagger. Under the armpit, behind the knee, etc."

Kuromaku says, "That, technically, should be covered by the AvD. AvD is supposed to take armor types into account and the amount of penetration and the like. I'd rather not get into how armor works, but if you're wearing a breastplate, and you ambush someone's leg, you get the breastplate's AvD but not the protection, if you know what I mean. I borrowed your character, Laurana. Hope you don't mind. And I'm gonna shift your edged skill to brawling, just for giggles. On me. Not you."

Kuromaku slashes with a vultite tiger-claw at a seeker!
AS: +348 vs DS: +234 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +42 = +196
... and hits for 44 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash to the seeker's right knee!
The seeker is knocked to the ground!
The seeker is stunned!

Kuromaku slashes with a vultite tiger-claw at a seeker!
AS: +347 vs DS: +184 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +72 = +275
... and hits for 74 points of damage!
Right leg ripped from socket at the knee!

Kuromaku slashes with a vultite tiger-claw at a seeker!
AS: +348 vs DS: +184 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +2 = +206
... and hits for 42 points of damage!
Fast slash to the seeker's neck exposes its windpipe.
Quick anatomy lesson, anyone?

Kuromaku slashes with a vultite tiger-claw at a seeker!
AS: +347 vs DS: +184 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +2 = +205
... and hits for 36 points of damage!
Powerful slash just cracks the seeker's shield arm!

Kuromaku says, "Now, I'm an exact copy of Laura, except that I simply copied her edged. In any case, it can work. Add some weighting and these two."

Kuromaku taps a vultite tiger-claw.

Kuromaku says, "I have a 5 RT. OK, so maybe this skill needs no tweaking?"

Thrudh says, "We're looking at a warrior that is nearly optimized for this fighting style hunting a creature that they don't learn much from, and the creature has the least crit resistance of any creature I've seen over 40. Try something more realistic."

Kuromaku says, "Use a pair of daggers."

Titaniia says, "Prollem is, Kuro, they're in the same position as OHE users except they kill a tiny bit faster but have less DS."

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!

AS: +348 vs DS: +651 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +66 = -204

A clean miss.

A clean miss.

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!

AS: +347 vs DS: +661 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +75 = -206

A clean miss.

A clean miss.

Kuromaku says, "Guess we need some help there."

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +309 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +3 = +75
A clean miss.
A clean miss.

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +309 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +51 = +122
... and hits for 4 points of damage!
Weak slash across chest!

Slightly less painful than heartburn.

Kuromaku says, "Well, it's better than no hit at all."

Kuromaku hurls himself at a massive pyrothag and connects!
MS: +303 - MD: +241 + MAvA: 0 + d100: +67 == +129
Success!
Kuromaku knocks a massive pyrothag flat and quickly jumps to his feet!

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +66 = +188
... and hits for 20 points of damage!
Awkward slash to the massive pyrothag's stomach!
Everyone needs another belly button.

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +44 = +165
... and hits for 12 points of damage!
Deft slash across chest draws blood!
The massive pyrothag takes a deep breath.

Kuromaku says, "Wow, you're dead meat, Laurana."

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +12 = +134
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Quick slash catches the massive pyrothag's cheek!
Dimples are always nice.

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +20 = +141
... and hits for 12 points of damage!
Quick slash catches the massive pyrothag's cheek!
Dimples are always nice.

Kuromaku leaps from hiding to attack!
Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +42 = +164
... and hits for 36 points of damage!
Hard blow to the massive pyrothag's ear!
Deep gash and a terrible headache!

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +46 = +167
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
Crossing slash to chest catches the massive pyrothag's attention!

Kuromaku leaps from hiding to attack!
Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +70 = +192
... and hits for 61 points of damage!
Hard slash to the massive pyrothag's side opens its spleen!

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +26 = +147
... and hits for 23 points of damage!
Slash to the massive pyrothag's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.

Kuromaku leaps from hiding to attack!
Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +348 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +17 = +139
... and hits for 22 points of damage!
Slash to the massive pyrothag's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.

Kuromaku swings a rolaren falchion at a massive pyrothag!
AS: +347 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +73 = +194
... and hits for 61 points of damage!
Hard slash to the massive pyrothag's side opens its spleen!
The fire in the massive pyrothag's eyes slowly fades.

Thrudh says, "With 2 rolaren falchions he came very close. I think what we're learning is that 2-weapon can be effective, but not when the weapons are shortswords or daggers. This is still largely irrelevant. A dagger against skin is roughly identical to a broadsword against plate. Not gonna crit much, even if you let the second attack go against skin. As long as crits are tied to base CP dealt, daggers and shortswords will never be viable. I think Quiet's been arguing this for years."

Kuromaku says, "It's a valid point. Always has been."

Thrudh says, "2-weapon works if you're swinging 2 axes or 2 falchions. It's downhill from there."

Kuromaku says, "True, but you CAN swing two axes. That's like saying a falchion is downhill from a claid."

Geoff says, "Of course, if breakage comes in perhaps daggers could be made more effective, just susceptible to easier breakage."

Kuromaku says, "No kidding."

Thrudh says, "No, I'm saying that using lighter weapons is downhill from the 2 falchions, not that 2-weapon isn't viable in any form. Maybe have a significant DF increase for the second attack but make it much more difficult to do with heavy weapons? Just adding crit weighting might not be sufficient, since a dagger has a tough time critting anything. At the same time, you might want to tweak down the first attack. It's supposed to be a feint. I dunno how you'd balance it all. Right now it's pretty much: Try to stun it with the first shot, then give it the double whammy. No feint at all."

Titaniia says, "If you do that, yer gonna hafta make the DF increase for the offhand slightly better then the proposed DF increase for OHE. Otherwise, they are giving up DS for no real benefit."

Thrudh says, "Especially since they're probably using a much lighter weapon."

Kuromaku says, "OK, let's table this and come back to it some other time. I don't know that we have enough practitioners here to have a meaningful conversation. OK. Part 2. Warcries. My position: Lots of people want to tweak warcries. My feeling is that we could probably stand to increase the duration, but the effects are basically pretty well balanced."

Lauranathalasa says, "If warcries isn’t a spirit- or elemental-based attack, then the warding for them should not be protected by such spells."

Kuromaku says, "Yeah, I agree."

Gaq says, "Still find that the CS is a bit low. Fire sprites are the same age as me, yet have 1/10 chance of getting 'em."

Kuromaku says, "OK, I think that the issue is that warcries is considered warding, which I can't quite sort out. I know they aren't maneuver-based, but they aren't technically elemental- or spiritual-based. Perhaps another warding system?"

Khazaan says, "When I am warcrying Magru and Vorteces, my throat is perfect. Yet more often then not I don't see a warding roll at all. I just see them being rather annoyed. Is that because I am failing the initial roll, or is this because they aren't the right thing I should be growling at? And why is it that I get 6 growls and my throat is shot?"

Kuromaku says, "Lotsa questions in there. I'm only going to address one. Some critters are magic-resistant, and, as a result, warcries don't work on them."

Khazaan asks, "Any way we can warcry undead in the future?"

Kuromaku says, "No. Undead aren't impressed with your hollering. I guess the net of this is that Warcries needs its own warding system."

Dwu says, "Our own system, and Dwarfs should be able to anger critters/folks as easy as Elvens embolden."

Kuromaku says, "Working on race specific verbs. One of them is Grunt."

Thrudh asks, "Dwarves and giants?"

Kuromaku says, "Hobbits will NOT be allowed to grunt. Elves will sniff if they try. Giants will rumble. And dwarves will be able to communicate entire sentences with grunt."

Pyranth says, "Well I'm assuming you are talking about items. The whetstone and polishing cloths are great, and I'd like to see more, say, files, etc."

Titaniia asks, "I know there are issues with making weapons and armor class-specific, but what about fluff?"

Kuromaku says, "Well, I don't want to do it, but I'm willing to have warriors use something differently or better than other classes."

Titaniia says, "For instance, if you introduce a file in the Warrior's Guild pavillion, I really hate seeing wizards buying them a half hour later. How about, ‘The wizard rubs his file and looks confused. He obviously hasn't a clue how to care for a weapon.’"

Kuromaku says, "I can do that easily. Have no problem with making items that only warriors can use properly."

Lauranathalasa says, "Or even that only warriors can hold, like when a 5-year-old reaches for vultite, he yelps in pain and drops it."

Kuromaku says, "I don't want to do that."

Ankhan says, "Okay. See, I had this idea. You don't see enough people wearing pants these days. I mean, I understand that armor includes pants, but wouldn't it be neat to have metallic mesh pants, or something very warrior-like?"

Geoff asks, "Oh, aye. Now why would I gie up my kilts frae sich things?"

Kuromaku says, "Geoff, if you want to wear woolen skirts, that's your business."

Ankhan says, "I think it would be very warrior-esque to have chain mesh pants."

Geoff says, "Some historically correct footwear would be nice."

Thrudh says, "I'd still like to have gloves that we can cinch down, maybe get a better grip on our weapons too. Oh. Zyanna requests breechcloths."

Titaniia says, "I just wanted to mention that Selandrial always has great warrior stuff. And if you can give him a pat on the back from us, it would be nice."

Kuromaku says, "I'll be sure to tell him."

Ankhan asks, "Okay. How about arm wrestling?"

Kuromaku says, "You might see that sooner than you think. And I wouldn't put an elder giantman warrior against a hobbit."

Thrudh asks, "Still working on the warrior greeting?"

Kuromaku says, "I am. A lot of things will happen over the next 2 weeks. I've been extremely busy at work and not able to code as much as I like. Due to my holiday, I'm spending a great deal of it coding, which, curiously enough, I find relaxing."

Selandrial just arrived.

You see Lord Selandrial Terranstar the Elf Wizard.
He appears to be in his 120's, has long, straight silver hair, multihued eyes, and pale skin.
He is in good shape.
He is holding a menacing milk chocolate fighter in his right hand.
He is wearing some fluffy bunny earmuffs, a pointed midnight blue wizards hat embossed with silvery moons and stars, some flowing midnight blue robes stitched with ancient elven runes, a blue sapphire amulet, some delicate silver slippers encrusted with glittering blue sapphires, and a crystal amulet.

Kuromaku says, "Evening, Selandrial."

Selandrial says, "Greets to ye all."

Kuromaku says, "Bunch of these fighters wanted to thank you for your work."

Selandrial asks, "Really? What work was dat?"

Titaniia says, "You always have lots of chain mail stuff and other good fighter things."

Selandrial says, "Ah."

Kuromaku says, "Just the general high quality of your work and attention to warriors in general."

Thrudh says, "The nice helms, girdles, and greaves."

Selandrial says, "I'm a warrior at heart just trapped in a girlie-man elf shell."

Titaniia asks, "Are you going to continue taking an active part in Quests? Or does it annoy the heck out of you when people like me come running around asking about "news" everytime you show up?"

Selandrial says, "Depends on the gossip I get. If I "hear" something, I will often pass it on."

Khazaan asks, "M'Lord, do you foresee forging making a negative impact on your business to the point where you would have to sell better things?"

Selandrial says, "Nope, nobody can make better armor than me. I’ve been doing it for a couple of centuries. I'm not too worried about newcomers."

Geoff says, "Rather than high enchanted items, I would rather see items with multiple functions, such as a shield which when rubbed adds to DS but only so many rubs a day or a weapon with limited guidance per day."

Selandrial says, "Hmm, That is possible to do. However, items such as that are limited to yearly auctions only. Anything "very special" is restricted to serious auctions, not my petty lil’ shops."

Geoff says, "It would be nice to see powerful weapons which 'cost' the user greatly to use it, such as losing life levels for a kill."

Selandrial says, "There are some out there. The war hammer comes to mind. Nasty lil’ weapon that."

Geoff says, "Such as a weapon which is unsheathed requires either an opponent’s blood or the owner’s before it can be put back in the sheath."

Selandrial says, "Aye, they are just very rare, as they should be."

Lauranathalasa says, "Ever consider making a sword like Kuromaku's? Concealed weapons or pairs of weapons?"

Kuromaku says, "Weapons with weapons inside, i.e., TURN SWORD. You draw a thin dagger from the pommel of your broadsword."

Selandrial says, "I have made matched sets before. A pair of mithril alloy sabres come to mind. I try and get new things out to you folks via the boxes. You may have noticed a lot of warrior-type stuff going out of late. They probably have my store torn apart by now. Okee folks, take care."